They do not, by and large, like politicians – I suppose that, by and large, they do not really like anyone much – but they ‘have a certain respect for them the same way they might have for a horse or a gun dog. There is of course, a lot of Texan among this stratum of millionaire. A lot of them are sort of high-class John Wayne’s – enormously rich John Wayne’s who don’t feel it necessary to do their own barroom brawling. – JOHN HEPWORTH on International Capitalists.

Paradigm Shift 4 Nov 2022
On today’s show we hear about resistance to the International Mining And Resources Conference happening presently in Sydney.

Andy speaks to Jonah Shabtay from live at the protests, to Marisol Salinas about organising an international counter-conference, and to lawyer Anastasia Radievska about some of the most ridiculous over the top policing of protest we have seen in a long time.

Songs
Lasso – Nemesis
Malik Yusef, Kumasi, Aaron Fresh, Choklate & Laci Kay – Trouble in the water
Rivermouth – Dig it up
Madeline Antoine – Elegy for a burning world

Stopping IMARC

Fri, Nov 04, 2022 12:00PM • 59:07

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

protest, people, blockade, police, new south wales, happening, sydney, conference, australia, bit, part, protesters, mining, digging, week, jonah, anastasia, companies, called, imac

SPEAKERS

Anastasia Radievska, Jonah Shabtay, Andy, Rivermouth, Marisol Salinas

Andy 

Welcome to the paradigm shift on fortunately said one or 2.1 where we challenge the assumptions of our current society to resist oppression and investigate alternative ways of living for a world based on justice, solidarity and sustainability. Ahead mob mob download

Andy 

Gari Gynda Narmi, welcome to the paradigm shift on four triple Zed 102.1 F M. It’s your local community radio station you’re currently tuned to. And my name is Andy, and I’ll be hanging out with you for the next hour until one o’clock. And today on the show I’m going to be talking about IMARC, the international mining and resources conference that is on right now as we speak in Sydney, I’ve got the little PR thing on their own website here, seven and a half 1000 Plus attendees, 100 plus countries, 470 exhibitors, more than 800 mining companies on the 450 speakers on 17,000 square meters of expo floor. That’s what’s happening at iMac. And they’re all They’re talking about how to make a buck out of digging up stuff out of the ground, or they weren’t talked much about is the damage that they’re doing to our environment in various ways to our climate and to the cultures in many of the places where those things being dug up. In fact, the democracies and government as well as the human rights of people, where they things are being dug up. And so it’s up to the protesters to do that. And as such, there is a group outside the Darling Harbour convention center right now in Sydney, under the name blockade II mark, they are doing a bit of a protest and a bit of a counter gathering to talk about what other possibilities are there for international connections beyond making money out of digging up things out of the ground. So today on the show, I’m going to talk about Jonah Shabtay , who is there at blockade IMARC, I spoke to him just half an hour ago or so about what’s going on. I’m also going to speak to Marisol Salinas, who is part of last net Latin American Solidarity Network and also part of blockade IMARC about a conference say organised a counter conference called life and death. Talking about resisting extractivism across borders. And I’ll also speak to Anastasia Radievska, who is a lawyer in Sydney, and who’s going to give us a bit of a report on a new feature of iMac this year, which is extraordinary intimidation and harassment of protesters some of the most incredible policing I have ever seen in the last week or two. Police have paid more than 40 visits to the houses of people who are known climate activists and have warned them that if they turn up to iMac and protest that they could be breaking laws and facing serious penalties. Of course, New South Wales has brought in new laws targeting protesters, as you may have heard on the paradigm shift a couple of weeks ago. And so that is what’s been happening. And so I spoke to Anastasia who has been keeping track of it or for legal observers in New South Wales. So stay tuned. Anyway, that is what’s coming up or chat with Jonah in a minute, literally a minute, but to get us there. I thought in the spirit of internationalism, I’ll play a brand new song from indigenous Brazilian punks. lesu. This one is about rainforest destruction. It’s called Nemesis

Andy 

That is lassoo out of Brazil. Of course, if you’ve been following the news, good news for the Amazon rainforest, at least in Brazil, in that Lula, their former president has won the presidential election there and higher Bolsonaro, who amazing didn’t much believe in democracy didn’t believe in any COVID laws or anything and didn’t believe in protecting the Amazon rainforest or anything like that. He has lost his place as Brazilian president. But back to I mark the international mining resources Conference, which we were just talking about, I spoke to Jonah Shabbetai, who is currently outside, I’m Mark as part of blockade iron mark. Let’s see what Jonah has to say.

Jonah Shabtay 

My name is Jonah. And I’m here at the block AI mass protests in Sydney. Yeah, first time that the conference has come to Sydney and here we are.

Andy 

Okay. Well, to start off with, do you want to tell us a bit about what is I’m Mark?

Jonah Shabtay 

I’m on the international mining and resources Conference, which is, yeah, it’s been held in Melbourne, up until this year, and government has moved to Sydney. And it’s essentially where Yeah, 100 the companies as well as government ministers. And yeah, people interested in the industry come together, and they feel they come together and share the greenwashed lies, they come together and plot ways to mine as much as they can from Australia and around the world. It’s very well protected, very well funded as well. It’s moved to Sydney. This has been said by the recent minister, to have unprecedented levels of funding from the New South Wales Government. And, yeah, essentially, we’re here to resist, we’re here to show some voice that is in opposition to what’s going on here, because they’re certainly certainly not the green picture that they’re trying to paint.

Andy 

There’s been some speculating that the reason it’s moved to Sydney is because of big protests in Melbourne in recent years when Iron Mark has been held. Do you think there’s anything to that?

Jonah Shabtay 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, there was there was a pretty huge turnout to the protests in Melbourne, which got pretty gnarly, got pretty exciting, and, and this year, they’ve moved to Sydney, which happens to come at the time where Sydney over New South Wales has introduced a fleet of new laws against protesting, particularly against blocking roads. And as well as these, they’re protesting StrikeForce StrikeForce guard, which was deployed this year on a number of protests. And yeah, you know, it’s pretty clear that New South Wales is becoming has been for a while a very sort of protected police state. And I mark seems to be, you know, a target among environmental protesters for obvious reasons. And, you know, it seems like they are offering a lot of protection or the government’s offering a lot of protection to the convent, here in Sydney. And, you know, this week, we’ve seen Yeah, we’ve just seen that come out in full force. I mean, there’s hundreds of conduits and blocking every single major bridge and Road station to every station in every train station. I’m actually looking at two police boats in Darling Harbour right now and just, you know, schmoozing and it’s kind of ridiculous.

Andy 

The police presence there at the conference must be quite something to behold and it certainly has been in the last couple of weeks with police stopping in different people’s houses will speak a bit more on the show with a lawyer Anastasia about that, but how do you think that’s affected the ability for people resist the conference?

Jonah Shabtay 

Yeah, I mean, here at the conference has hundreds of choice and you know, like dispersed among the whole surround and pretty much locked down to see Whether at every train station, and, you know, I was chatting to one of them, and they pulled cops from all over the city for this event. And yeah, as well as you know, heaps of detectives that have been, as you say, visiting homes and harassing people in, you know, pre emptive preemptive strikes or whatever they want under strike, strike force guard, which is, yeah, it’s intimidation, and they really don’t have anything substantial to validate those visits and that harassment, because, you know, nothing has happened here, that, you know, has warranted that kind of response. There’s actually been, you know, like permissions granted to the protesters here. And, you know, it’s almost embarrassing for them, like, when you look at the numbers of police that they’ve deployed, and, yeah, not to mention that, you know, people have been harassed at their family homes, mine included. And yeah, you know, I’ve never been to an IMAX protest in my life until this time, and yet, they, you know, have now deemed me and a bunch of others as worthy of intimidation anytime, it seems that there’s going to be a protest. So yeah, but we still have seen some good numbers come out today. You know, considering it’s the first time in Sydney, there’s a good turnout. And we’ve got some good groups represented here. We’ve got the extinction rebellion, we’ve got Bob Brown Foundation, who are here to talk about the Tarkine, which has been directly assaulted by one of the companies in the building. And as well as we’ve got the John rebellion, we’ve got the socialist Alliance. And we’ve got like a coalition of people sort of forming this blockade I’ma event, which is pretty, pretty encouraging for Sydney.

Andy 

And one of the things that you’ve tried to do is, yeah, do a bit of imagining alternatives to extractivism in today’s proceedings, and speeches and things like that.

Jonah Shabtay 

Yeah, yeah. So we’ve had a few breakout discussions, which seems to be a pretty cool way to engage protesters in conversation, you know, in, we’ve got the space and time to do it. So yeah, some of those breakouts, you know, have had some people. Yeah, really exploring what it could mean to live in a post extracted as well, as well as bringing to light and things that are happening internationally. Craig example, someone from the Sudanese revolution. Supportive committee, sorry, has, yeah, has spoken to us and join those breakouts to tell us about, you know, Sudanese delegates that have come here, then the resource minister from Sudan, to make deals with the Australian government, which will directly increase gold mining in Sudan, and that has been, you know, impossible to protest over there, as well, as has, you know, a lot of like, underground and, like, very violent practices involved, that, you know, almost unreported on internationally. And so, yeah, you know, good to have people here informing us of those things, and, you know, gives a bit of context to what’s happening inside the building. And, yeah, we kind of just have created a bit of an imaginative space here, with the hope of, you know, uniting people from different groups and different interests to sort of imagine beyond beyond mining beyond extraction.

Andy 

One of the things that you’ve mentioned already, and that’s been a focus as well of the blockade iomart group is the greenwashing of mining companies. Have you seen much of that?

Jonah Shabtay 

Yeah, totally. I mean, you know, we haven’t directly engaged with many people from inside the building, because the barricades around the whole conference center, but we have seen from the agenda of the conference, as well as the companies in attendance and, and, you know, news articles that have come out this week, that, you know, there’s a huge focus on the transition. There’s a huge focus on carbon offsetting, which, as we know, is the Australian Government’s really convenient way of you know, perpetuating extraction, you know, with with a nice green guys over it. Yeah, and it really has nothing substantial to it. And pretty much you know, all the major companies in there, Adani, BHP MMG, who were down in the Tarkine, Fortescue Metals who over in the Pilbara as well as you know, Hunter Valley coal and, and the rest of them. Yeah, you know, most of them are engaged in these carbon offset schemes which the government of Australia actually offers those accreditation. And that makes it really hard to hold the individual companies accountable because As they’ve externalized, sort of the accreditation of those carbon offset schemes, and internationally, that’s actually been condemned. But in Australia, there’s no one really pushing back on that. So, yeah, that really complicates sort of the greenwashing facade that we’re trying to dismantle that. Yeah, you know, the direction of like Australian politics and Australian business is extraction, we know this. And there’s nothing happening in that conference that is trying to slow that down. It’s just making ways to speed it up and to, you know, Greenify it, but ultimately, that conference is still headed towards title extraction and total desecration of Australia. So pretty perfect.

Andy 

Yeah, it’s amazing. These companies, they, they’re the ones that profit in the first place off the destruction of our climate. And then they don’t even pay tax most of them as it’s come out in figures recently, but then, when it comes to, you know, climate adaptation, they just see it as another opportunity to put their hand out and get more money off the government. And that’s part of the marketing of transition and things like that is just a way of, you know, scamming more money for themselves.

Jonah Shabtay 

Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we see renewable grants and renewable sort of, you know, categorizations being given to things like, you know, wood chips, exports, and we, you know, we, yeah, as you say, it’s, it’s really just, yeah, you know, they can see that money there to be made, and they can see that protection is there and social licence is there in that in that image. And so that’s what they’re going for.

Andy 

All right, thanks very much. Jonah, I’ll let you get back to being hassled by cops telling Harvard. But um, I mean, what comes next? I mark will finish today. What’s next, I guess for blockade or marking for resisting fossil fuel?

Jonah Shabtay 

Yeah, I mean, you know, blockade IMARC, I guess, we’ll see where Sydney takes it, you know, like Sydney has a broad group of climate, you know, broad spectrum of climate groups. And, you know, we’ve seen a good turnout, you know, across the board here today. So, we’ll see what happens the next year, obviously, you know, we’re gonna have to monitor police behavior pretty strongly. And we’re also going to have to really engage with sort of civil rights groups and legal legal rights groups to, you know, help help defend the right to protest here. But you know, that just because they’ve moved state, that doesn’t mean that yeah, they’re gonna, they’re gonna get off the hook, like we’re still called the hassle for them as much as possible. Well, I guess what we’re trying to do here today is sort of build a bit of community connection and a bit of community strength in Sydney to gear up for the future conferences.

Andy 

All right. Thanks very much, Jonah (Shabtay).

Jonah Shabtay 

No worries Thanks, andy Have a good one.

Water moves New World Order rules to harbor change the pain this may order for sound waves shutdown graves dug deep water dirty like the police that flooded streets blood on the beach sand storms on the streets a man’s form can be transformed with the heat of the moment. We think our opponent is overseas but we must have wet Mother Nature’s ovaries it’s a cruel winter summer don’t know myself I say cream for all know as well and no one’s supposed to help that’s what I’m made for. I’m a made man but I am made though God’s gift to this Earth does what she prayed for they’ve been stable since Cain killed Abel.

beginning was the Word and then he made the lead made man and then came to slaughter slaughter slaughter everything was pleased voltage just showed up on the band The first the pupil contaminate the ocean not the wonder was length of four plugs for two liters that should be the vehicle for me go the volt consigo Can you can find me you Oh, the water used to be seen the wish weapons was fooled then we all be feared I wish narcotics was fruit. I got them apples in red and Nemesis since Genesis when no one should have fish that’s when good know how it is still it is they do the unthinkable why the same color was t that still didn’t treat purple subhabrata Fig wheel was probably up and never taught us prepare for World World War

Two one would know and balance fresh and saltwater way out of balance with this gulf iced water challenge ocean ain’t Joma chasse can live in in the gas lands or your water flow straight out of the faucet now by your water flow straight out of the faucet we’ve been in the pain of Mother Earth is a cost is a what is cracking with all this cracking. They go around and Release the Kraken trouble in the water used to mean that a shocking eat tonight you got a better chance of bumping in the shark Kesha on Park cretin gorilla monsoon tracks for Jesus to talk on the seas to disease for Jesus to walk on Gila Mother Earth because he weighed too big for us to put chopped out good music.

Andy 

Here on four triple Zed 102.1 F M. paradigm shift is the name of the show that just there was common featuring and get ready. If you’re taking notes at home. Malik Yusef, Kumasi, Aaron Fresh, Choklate & Laci Kay on that track, which is called trouble in the water. Many communities around the world trying to protect their water from the fossil fuel industry and other forms of mining and destructive industries as well. As many people have been saying many of the companies that are at our mark, the international mining and resource company conference that is currently happening in Sydney, are the companies responsible for that and there’s many people around the world who have been trying to resist it. And one of the things that blockade II Mark has tried to do which, or I go further I will say before that interview was speaking with Jonah Shabtai, who is down there in Sydney as part of blockade armor. But in recent years, one of the things that group has been trying to do is join together people around the world who are resisting extractivism and the destruction of our planet for the sake of the wealth of a few companies. And so I spoke to Marisol Salinas, who is part of blockade IMR about some of that solidarity work they’ve done with people in different parts of the world. They last week, they organize their own counter conference to the iMac which they called Life or death. A conference of imagining talking about the issues of extractivism and imagining a different future. Let’s have a listen to Marisol to find out more. You are part of blockade II mark and organization that over the last few years has been organizing mostly in Nam Melbourne. Can you tell us a bit about I mean, what blockade iron mark is and what it’s done in the last few years.

Marisol Salinas 

Blocking IMARC is, as you mentioned, is it’s not an organization is a group of individuals. Group parties, you know, independent people who decided to get together to talk about it, IMARC, and why it was important to start denouncing, you know, this national meeting is happening or international meetings happening here in Australia, by them in Melbourne. Because in Latin America and in Asia Pacific with these companies, mainly mining companies, what they’re doing is horrible. So they’re creating a lot of displacement of Texans, indigenous communities. There are polluting the rivers. They’re destroying basically our environment. So that was one of the main reasons, these companies always come with the big lie that they are bringing jobs and prosperity to the areas where the mining is going to be, but is totally the opposite. And no one talks about that. So that that was the original idea why so many people decided to get together and start organizing.

Andy 

And that’s been a big focus isn’t it is joining up with international movements against mining and linking them to things happening in Australia?

Marisol Salinas 

That’s correct. This is an international movement

Andy 

to respond to the international minerals and resource conference, I guess.

Marisol Salinas 

Yeah, it is a different organizations all around the world who are already doing this, but they are a the affected communities, you know, the ones are already their property or their land was where the mine is at the moment. So they’re the one organizing campaigning, and there is an international movement to let everyone knows what’s going on. Why is important, you know, for this meeting not to happen. Because, you know, this meeting is not just mining companies who come to the meeting. Also, any other business who profit from mining could be the companies who make the closing, you know, for the miners, you know, the food, anything, anything that has to do with mining, those are the companies who come to these international meetings. And the worst part is that they always come with a plan. You know, all right, this is one part of Asia, or Latin America, that is no mine in there, we can do something about it. Let’s talk to the government, let’s look into the international agreements, you know, if there is an international agreement, it is going to be easy for us to go in. And to start a business. In Latin America, and in Asia Pacific, there is no strong regulations. So for these companies, it’s very easy to get in an auto response when the raise environmental disasters, you know, as we have seen, you know, what happened in Brazil, will happen in Chile. Yeah, so totally different story when these mining companies start working in other continents.

Andy 

So in recent years, the iMac conference has happened in Melbourne, and there’s been a big physical presence there to resist it. Can you tell us a bit about in recent years, what that’s looked like,

Marisol Salinas 

Look, before the v4 COVID. Yeah, they’re the actions they will be. So as I mentioned before, people from all the different agency know, they were coming, because this is something that affects everyone. So yeah, there were massive movements. Also, we organize conferences, you know, online, and also the persons were local, indigenous here in Australia affected by mining, you know, also they had the opportunity to come and talk about what’s happening here in Australia, in their community. So I think it is an a strong moment. But there is already other organizations, environmentalists, organizations here in Australia, you know, highlighting issues, you know, that uranium mining, or the nuclear waste, you know, is doing here in Australia. So, what we did we invite all those ones who are already doing this job to join and be part of this announcing.

Andy 

And this year, I mark moved to Sydney. Some people say that they did it because of the protests that have happened in Melbourne in recent years. And it’s been effective I guess, in having less of a protest there, thanks largely to New South Wales Police. But you still blockade IMAX door organized, alternative gathering international post extractivism gathering. Can you tell us about that event and what happened there?

Marisol Salinas 

Oh, we already did. We had a conference. There have been it was one day online one day, face to face here in Melbourne. Again, we invited all those communities affected by mining. So they were talking about their stories. You know how many people have died or contamination communities don’t have drinkable water animals because of the mining. So they have to wait for the track who comes once a week with water for them to be able to have drinkable water. So all those experiences, you know, coming from Asia Pacific, Latin America and one particular community here in Australia. Yeah, we had that conference, it was pretty interesting, you know, the, the attendance, and how many people wanted to know, more wanted documents, you know. So I think yes, we will continue campaigning, then announcing, and if they move to this a wells, and that somehow will not allow us to organize as we were doing here, I’m sure that there is a lot of other organizations in this world who will take this struggle. And, of course, we will be there supporting, and we will continue here in Victoria, organizing the conference, especially the online part to make sure we are still give the opportunity and voices, you know, to the voiceless. Because that’s what it is, you know, people are affected in other parts of the continent, when there is no free media, there is no respect to the environment, where there is a conflict or a real movement. And so the government and mining companies can do whatever they want, you know, at least they will have a voice in this online conference, people will know. And the idea is to distribute all the recordings, you know, that we can organize so people can hear the stories and make a decision, you know, is that okay? That I’m here having such a good life? You know, in the meantime, other people, you know, are suffering, you know, and I’m responsible for that. Do I have any responsibility? I think it’s important, you know, just to make people think.

Andy 

And one of the other things that bucket omark has tried to do in these conferences, and I guess a bit in blinking together in solidarity with people in different countries that does a little bit in itself, but also trying to imagine a future beyond the extractive industry. What do you think that’s important?

Marisol Salinas 

Oh, definitely, for what I already mentioned to you, you know, we all want to live in peace and we all want to enjoy you know, beautiful fresh air, drink water, you come into your house and you have water to drink, no contamination. So of course, we are not just for the scene to the nouns, this is also about making people think about that there is a better future you know, and definitely we are going to continue with other groups here building that new future.

Andy 

Alright, thanks Marisol (Salinas). So, if people are interested in finding out more about blockade iron mark in the conference and things like that, how can they do that?

Marisol Salinas 

They just need to go or you know, look for placate IMARC, they will find the webpage and information and there is some contact details of that contact emails where they can send an email if they want to know more if they want to join because as you said, you know, this is a this is a movement that is in the beginning stage. So this is just the beginning

Andy 

Okay, thanks very much Marisol

Marisol Salinas 

thanks for your cover

Rivermouth 

so what’s an island wide Brown and crowded with ancestor spirits some might look sounded but couldn’t hear it shouting, singing they just bulldozed it flat brought in Fox and cast and built a nation on the back of slave labor and genocide morality landslide pulling into the middle of an empty country when even applying this century could see that it was occupied. We made a habit of scratching the Earth’s surface, sold sacred soil to fill spoiled purses our best getting deeper leap into oblivion digging into skin pillar chin now we’re living in sin bitumen bandaid that won’t heal bending nerve endings we’ve got how to feel coast to coast mine in the land of slaves. Australia is a nation that’s digging its own grave digging it, digging it up. Gonna make another hole doesn’t do any minerals, uranium and Old stole this land now we’ve sold it so lost control of consumption This is how we roll to get up OpenCart culture vultures on the grass throw stones willy nilly but those walls are glass who might have pontificate shouting down the town even the metal in this microphone came out of the ground were short sighted hiding our faces in the sand fake tan city dwellers turned our backs on the land. Take the money now ignore long term costs 50 years down the line we’ll admit what we’ve lost. They say it can’t last forever. They call it another flawed endeavor. fatherland becomes a dust bowl. A stable economy can’t be built on coal. Scroll down, read the fine print and take control don’t believe and when they tell you what’s the minimal toll maintain status quo their ultimate goal? Why learn to think when you can learn to dig a hole?

Rivermouth 

Somewhere along the line we stopped making progress started making junk going through the process of chucking out old stuff and digging up more when we should have been reusing what we dug up before we are swollen ticks the kind that cause paralysis crawling across the skin of the colon hyperbole. I call it accurate analysis Gladstone’s stuck in flight for all where it works, but it creates jobs blindfolded they share as though nothing that makes jobs could ever be a bad idea Advance Australia Fair Advance Australia consumptions culture agricultural failure, we don’t need food we can just eat the dust but Sunday when the mining trucks Ross died trust will realize the unwise path we’ve taken when the crops are when the earth starts shaking dig it up to get up gonna make another hole doesn’t daddy minerals, uranium and coal stole this land now we’ve sold it sold us control of consumption. This is how he rolls it up.

Andy 

On the paradigm shift on four triple Zed, 102.1 FM, that song you just heard there was rivermouth with dig it up a bit of an older one from them. Of course, voice there of Jonathan Sriraganathan If I did that justice to his full name as he is very to himself now excellent contributor to local politics in Brisbane. Before then I was speaking with Marisol Salinas, from blockade II Mark about linking up internationally making the resistance to mining industry multinational, just as the mining industry itself is multinational. And they were organizing at counter conference to the international mining and resources conference last week. And I did mention earlier in the show, one of the most notable things about iMac this week is that we’ve seen an incredible level of police intimidation of protesters. So if you listen to the parachutes a few weeks ago, and if you didn’t, this is the bit where I remind you that on the fortable Zed website, you can go back and listen to old episodes of your favorite shows, including a paradigm shift. And so if you get to the paradigm shift page on the website, and in the little calendar bit, go back a few weeks, you’ll find a show talking about restrictions on protests, the repression and protest in this country, Victoria and Tasmania, both bringing in new anti protest laws and New South Wales as well. Well, and you said well, cops took it to another level in the last couple of weeks in preemptively stopping people from going to process by turning up at people’s houses including Jonah who we interviewed earlier in the show, and telling them all the things that might happen to them if they come to buy, iMac and try to do any disruptive protests. It’s pretty remarkable repression of basic civil liberties, I guess, to have police turn up the door, but also the recognition of the importance of protests in our society for democracy to counter the power of these big companies who make their profits off destroying our planet. We’re in a climate crisis. And we need a protest right to force change because the free market and our governments are not doing an adequate job at reining in the destructive power of the mining industry. And that’s where we need ordinary people to have levers for change, have the ability to influence our society and protest is how we do that and disruptive forms of protest is a proven effective way. So bit of a worry then that the New South Wales Government has been so keen to crush it both blockade Australia protests earlier this year and blockade Iraq this week, which are to say, Now, the reason that they were so harsh on it is because police think that it’s the same group organizing blockade Australian blackout iMac, which is not blockade iMac has existed for like five years did, and they could have figured that out with a little Google search. But instead, they sent hundreds of cops out across the country to knock on people’s doors and threaten them. Anyway, I spoke to Anastasia Reddy. EBSCO, who is a lawyer in Sydney and part of Sydney are legal observers about everything that’s been going on. Let’s have a listen.

Anastasia Radievska 

I’m Anastasia from legal observers New South Wales. We’re a grassroots collective of individuals who are interested in police accountability in relation to the policing of protest. And we’ve been involved with legal support for a number of protests and protest groups over the last couple of years.

Andy 

As and you’ve certainly been kept busy in the recent months in the lead up to the iron Mark mining conference in Sydney. Can you tell us a bit about what’s happened in terms of policing of those protests?

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, so we’ve had a somewhat unexpected, I suppose, escalation in relation to the pacing of this particular protest has been done about a week ago, we began to get reports trickling in from from Victoria and from around New South Wales of activists being visited in their homes by police asking them about their intention to participate in in IMAK protests, telling them certain things about the legality of protesting without a permit from police, which were untrue. And since then, we’ve had about 40 people in total all over the country from Queensland, to the AC T to Victorian New South Wales visited so we haven’t really seen this kind of national door knocking operation before from the police. And it’s something that since the June protests by blockade Australia, we did have door knocking happening within Sydney, but we haven’t seen it spread out to this national scale. And with police, sort of, even in Queensland and Victoria telling activists about New South Wales legislation so quiet, you know, a lot of a lot of national cooperation between the different police forces and seeming to be quite essentially coordinating campaign of intimidation.

Andy 

So it’s just been police turning up at people’s house, no warrant or anything, but just to tell them not to come to the protest, basically, or warn them what might happen if they

Anastasia Radievska 

do. That’s right. That’s been part of it. And then in the last couple of days, we’ve also seen a number of searches carried out on vehicles of individuals suspected to be connected to protest activity. That suspicion has often been on quite spurious grounds. We had a report of somebody today, who works near the convention center in Darling Harbour where this conference is going to waiting to go into work and was had their bag searched by police on suspicion of being a protest to seemingly just because they were a young person in the area. We’ve had also police defecting cars of activists on very spurious grounds and a number of yes searches of cars such as or belongings for articles related to protest activities, such as banners, for example. So yeah, quite concerning developments there.

Andy 

And LinkedIn with this as well. You mentioned blockade Australia protests that there’s a number of people still on extremely punitive bail conditions, with a number of restrictions on their movement and association and I think there’s been this has come up again, we’ve seen, I believe people arrested who for breach of bail, because they had things that made it look like they might be going to a protest.

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, that’s right. Well, we had reports of two people pulled over yesterday in the sort of Sydney region, and had their costs searched on the basis of checking their compliance with bail conditions from the June protests, and one of the things was alleged that they had, but they had broken a condition of not having more than one phone, which is one of the conditions that was imposed, there were a number of conditions like not using encrypted apps not possessing, or the one mobile phone essentially to stop people from communicating with people to organize protests. So one person actually spent a night in custody because police found or alleged that they found a second phone charger and other persons spent time in custody for using encrypted encrypted apps. So yeah, we’ve had a number of people and and just tonight, we’ve had another report of a person who has been arrested in Sydney for breach of bail after being picked up in the city. We’re not clear what the circumstances of that are exactly. But yet it seems to be escalating as we get closer and closer to Friday, which is the last day of the conference.

Andy 

So this is just total harassment of people who have been involved in protests with no evidence that they are involved in anything to do with IMR. I guess the question is, how legal Is it a police allowed to do this?

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, that’s that’s a really interesting question. Unfortunately, as is often the case, with policing, they have a wide scope for discretion in relation to when they carry out searches, they are meant to have a reasonable suspicion that you have an article in your possession that you’re going to use in the commission of what’s called an indictable offense. So an offence punishable by more than two years, under the new anti protest laws in New South Wales, obstructing traffic during a protest or even obstructing pedestrians is punishable by two years or more. So could potentially fall under that definition. But in terms of the reasonable suspicion criterion, as I said earlier, police have just recently searched somebody just for being in an area and looking as if they could be a protester. So I’m not sure that that meets that definition. The difficulty with a lot of this is that you have to actually bring a case to have all of these police assumptions tested. And a lot of people don’t have the resources or even desire to engage with the legal system in that way. So essentially, unless there is public outcry, and some push towards public accountability, many of these overreaches do go unchallenged, which is why we’re working on getting, you know, more politicians to speak up about it getting New South Wales labor, to speak up about it as well. But having supported these laws going through Parliament, and that’s part of, you know, pushing back against police misusing their discretion in this way that does seem to be pushing the bounds of legality.

Andy 

It seems to be a trend in New South Wales. I remember last year, the Police Chief Mike fuller saying that he was going to use bizarre laws about intent to injure or kill against protesters, which is obviously, you know, a spurious use of that law and were thrown out in court. This year, we’ve seen these bail conditions used. And now this is this a trend in New South Wales that it has been escalating?

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, I think I think it is, I think part of it is that as the climate crisis is escalating, and our awareness of how far away we are from doing what we need to do on it, is escalating, protests is escalating. And the state is responding to those escalations because they’re aware that, you know, this degree of dissent is dangerous, especially when, you know, the Federal Labor government is trying to sell itself as a champion of climate change. So over the last year, we have seen, you know, new anti protest laws, totally oversized, you know, 25 year, penalties invoked, although that, you know, those charges were ultimately dropped by police. A lot of it seems to be an intimidation campaign, a sort of proactive, making people reconsider engaging in any protests that’s not kind of approved by the state are entirely within the boundaries of what the state finds acceptable. And that’s part of why these visits are so concerning, because despite the police insistence that they’re just information giving or community relations visits, they do have an intimidatory effect, and they’re part of this on Going escalation of the kinds of penalties that frankly, I think most people thought that we wouldn’t see, in Australia, you know, two years jail for obstructing a pedestrian trying to get into a railway station, for example. I mean, it doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that most people would find acceptable in the community. But unfortunately, that’s where we’ve ended up right now.

Andy 

Well, yes, you mentioned that we are in a climate crisis. And obviously, we need protests to force change that to protect our planet. We also need protests as a basic democratic, right, a safeguard against authoritarianism. What do we do to push back against these laws?

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, that’s a really important question. I think part of it is re valorizing protest as as a mode of democratic participation. I think the funny thing about protest is that most of the things that we consider just the most basic rights that we have have been one through protest, but we don’t think of them in that way, because they become immediately normalized. And all the dissent that led to their institution has forgotten, you know, the eight hour work day of voting for women land rights for First Nations people. I think part of it has to be a reawakening of the public consciousness as to the importance of protests for the things that they enjoy in their day to day life and the things that they even take for granted. And I think opening up, you know, the scope for who can participate in protests and who we’re reaching out to, when we are protesting using that communal language, that this is actually a communal capacity that we need to protect that matters for all of us, I think is really important. And it’s been great to see unions, speaking up more about how disruptive protest is particularly important to workers rights, and that solidarity protests are part of that, despite the attempts at the anti protest laws to sort of divide environmental protesters from from unionists and from working class protesters. So part of it is finding that shared ground of protest being a resource that we can all get behind and benefit from. And part of it is also, you know, continuing to have public outcry when these things happen, not letting them become normalized. I think it’s very easy to go, Oh, yes. Well, you know, well, this happened last month. So it’s the same old story. I think it’s important to continue speaking out about it to really realizing how far away we are from where we should be in terms of democratic liberties in New South Wales and in Australia. And really putting pressure on the parties that do have the capacity to change this. Ultimately, we need to push back against this being law, the anti protest laws in New South Wales, we need to be able to create legislative change. Engaging in some of that reformism, I think while limited on its own is pot is really important part of a broader strategy of creating the political space for broad protest participation. So I would hope that everybody who is able to engage in those campaigns in the capacity that they have, whether that’s through something as simple as signing a petition or turning up to, to the protests that are happening in your area, those are all important ways.

Andy 

Okay, so if people are interested in finding out more about what’s happened in the last week or so or being part of a campaign, how can they do that? They do that.

Anastasia Radievska 

Yeah, so we Twitter legals, we’ve been post saying quite a bit about every thing that’s going on about so recommend following the council, South Wales council for civil liberties. We will have ways for people to get to relevant decision makers, etc. Yeah, just stay in touch and what’s going on and shit happening in Australia. So sharing, you know, even talking to your relatives about it, honestly, someone being exposed to something they might not have been exposed to before to talk about it with people, you know, raise it as an issue. I think that does a lot to sort of change the social consciousness

Andy 

on it. Okay, thanks very much, Anastasia.

Anastasia Radievska 

Thank you, Andy.

Andy 

That is Anastasia Radievska  they’re speaking to the paradigm shift about the repression of protests that’s happened in the last few weeks in New South Wales, and it is part of a trend across the country. And as Anastasia points out there, it doesn’t just affect the few people who get cops turning up at their house when the right to protest is under attack. It affects us all and people in the future as well who have to inherit a society where mining companies were allowed to ride roughshod over our democratic rights to further their own profits, because that’s the reality of what happens when we don’t have the power to push back as ordinary people is that those who do have the power mining companies like those at IMARC today who have got all kinds of politicians and public servants and things like that coming, they’re giving them their spiels. They’re promising all kinds of kickbacks, who knows? And it’ll end up that our society is given over to people who are just in it to make a buck out of our planet. So join the protests. That’s what I say. support those people like the people who have been protesting outside Omar today because we need it. We are in a very dire situation environmentally, and it’s only people like you and me who are gonna be able to fix it getting together and doing what we can. That’s about all we have time for on the paradigm shift. Stay tuned next week. I’ll be back with more. Thanks very much, Rachel from Daylesford for signing up as a fortune was dead subscriber Good on you keeping community radio on the air. And you could do that too. If you’re listening at home and you’re not a subscriber to this fine radio station. Well, what are you waiting for? Get on the for triple Zed website like Rachel and sign up and help keep independent media on the air. I’m gonna go out with one last song, a new one from instrumental violin player from over in Perth, Madeline Antoine This one’s Elegy for a burning world. See you next week.